She was a five-year-old girl with who carried around a 31 year-old attitude that she called mom.
She walked over to me and said, “you are fat” and then asked why I didn’t have nicer shoes. I smiled at her and said that she made a good parrot. Her eyes grew wide and she asked me what I meant. I told her that I was sure that she tried very hard to be like her mom and she nodded. I said that I bet that she listened carefully to everything that her mom and said and that mom had talked about the other moms and dad and she nodded again.
She walked over to me and said, “you are fat” and then asked why I didn’t have nicer shoes. I smiled at her and said that she made a good parrot. Her eyes grew wide and she asked me what I meant. I told her that I was sure that she tried very hard to be like her mom and she nodded. I said that I bet that she listened carefully to everything that her mom and said and that mom had talked about the other moms and dad and she nodded again.
I laughed and she asked me what was so funny and I told her that cheerleaders weren’t smart enough to understand why it was funny. She looked up at me and said that she wasn’t a cheerleader but that her mommy had been one. I feigned surprise and said that I didn’t know that. We spent another moment or two talking and I told her that people who are mean to others sometimes grow up to have no friends and that it was more important to learn a lot in school than to marry well.
Most of that went over her head and that is ok. I know that the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree and I am certain that her comments came from her mother. Part of me felt badly about planting those seeds. She is only five and it is not her fault that her mother thinks that the measure of people is made based upon their looks and financial wherewithal. Some people are blessed by birth and others work hard for what they have.
This girl is one of a small group of girls that are part of my daughter’s class. They all started together in preschool and have continued on together into elementary school. I don’t know if I would say that this girl is the queen bee of the junior mean girls but she is certainly a board member. I watch and listen and know that she is being raised with values that are anathema to me. I watch and listen and see that she and the junior mean girls are a minority. The majority of the kids are great but there are always a few.
Sometimes I watch and am fascinated by how different the interaction is between the boys and the girls. There are mean boys. There are boys that aren’t nice but to me the distinctions and differences behaviorally are huge. Sometimes I wonder if what I consider to be mean/rude is caused by a misunderstanding. I wonder if there is a gender issue here because I feel like I follow the boys line of thought. I feel like I can see a clear line and even when it doesn’t make sense, it makes sense to me.
But girls are different.
And in my daughter’s class I see mean moms raising mean girls. The mean moms don’t like me very much. We have had some words this year and they didn’t like it. I teach my children to be civil and try to do the same. It is not always easy for me. I like to get the last word in and I hate apologizing. Sometimes I fall short, but I am usually aware of it.
The senior mean girls collective is angry because they sent out an email that was supposed to be an end of the year wrap-up and I asked a few questions. They don’t understand why I pointed out that we fell short in a few areas and I am told that they think I am an “asshole.” I tell the mom who passed that along they don’t understand the meaning of the word unless its is wrapped in gold. She asks me why I responded as I did and I tell her that it is about setting the tone for next year.
It is not adversarial nor one upsmanship I am after. Rather I want to make sure that some of these issues won’t come up next year. I want to make sure that the parents who won’t speak up know that if they do they will be supported. And come next September when school resumes I expect that the senior mean girls collective will do a better job of communicating with other parents and will have less influence.
At least that is what the fat guy with the ugly shoes hopes will happen. Time will tell.
This souds like my daughter’s dance class….there has been one little 8 yr old that has a need to be mean, critical, and intimidating toward my daughter (and a few others, occasionally). The teacher has addressed the whole class regarding how they are to behave, and that only the teachers are to “correct” any dance issues. My daughter loves ballet, but this one girl is ruining it for her. My daughter has tried to make friends with the girl, to no avail. I have not spoke to the mother about this, because the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree. I wish these kids would just be kind to each other.
Wow, Jack. This should be printed in school handbooks they pass out at registration every year.
Social skills are definitely lacking in kids these days. They have no clue what it means to be polite (especially to their elders) at home or in public.
Monkey see, monkey do still true.
Hi Bev,
I don’t know whether it is getting worse or not but I know that this post generates a ton of traffic to the blog and that bothers me a little.
The “mean girl” thing shouldn’t be so damn common but it is. I hear from friends and family as well as my own experiences.
Some parents are just not nice people and they teach their children to adopt their bad practices.
@SuzyQ I don’t have any new answers to the questions you pose. I am not a psychiatrist though I do play one on TV. But I do believe in the importance of standing up to them and issuing the reminder that we are all people.
Jack, I agree with how little girls learn to be mean girls – I work in an elementary school, and 90% of the time, mean little girls have mean mommies. It’s difficult to raise your daughter so she, too, doesn’t become a mean girl. What is it about meanies that makes them so popular? Why do the nice girls want to be friends with the mean girls? It’s either poor self esteem or self-preservation. To be perfectly honest, I feel a little satisfaction when the situation presents itself where I can take a little of the spark out of the mean ones…to let them know that not everyone has succumbed to their imaginary charms, or thinks they’re precocious and brilliant and beautiful and all that. (And where does a 5-year-old, unless they have older male siblings who are athletes, see cheerleaders to know that they can join a cheerleading squad? Right, from Mom who either WAS or WANTED TO BE a cheerleader. I hold that kind of vicariousness in great disdain…sorry, moms who think there’s nothing “wrong” with it…) Bottom line is, those of us with bellies and round-heeled shoes need to continue to have the confidence to speak up to the moms who want to be in control, and let them know that, while we may not be quite as Stuart Smalley as they are, we’re pretty decent people and, darn it, people like US AND OUR KIDS, too.
(This is my first visit, and it won’t be my last – I found you via Vanita’s After Bedtime Blog…going to add you to my blog page: http://workingmombacktoschool.blogspot.com. )
@AnnieAndreHacks Oy, So sorry that those girls forced you into that situation. That really is terrible. You may be right about their motivation- all I know is that they need an attitude adjustment.
Hi Jack,
first time here. Not my last. I was a victim of the mean girls brigade. It scared me into being dabilitatingly shy my WHOLE FREAKING LIFE. well not my whole life, just up until around high school and had to go to Montreal to live with relatives because it was that bad.
I’m not sure why those mean girls exist. and i’ve contemplated this for a long time but i think it’s because they place their values on fleeting values and things like clothes, brands, cars. Rather than moral ethics, kindness and empathy. All just speculation on my part. Who knows.
Ah mean girls. You are so right about the evolution of mean girl from one generation to another. Our kids watch us, they do what we do, say what we say…we are their models. And sadly, the pack of moms or parents that like to dictate all things school every year gets stronger and stronger, to the exclusion of so many. Good for you to respond and try to change the conversation!!
I am not wired to deal with that kind of nonsense. It is just unacceptable
behavior.
Ah mean girls. You are so right about the evolution of mean girl from one generation to another. Our kids watch us, they do what we do, say what we say…we are their models. And sadly, the pack of moms or parents that like to dictate all things school every year gets stronger and stronger, to the exclusion of so many. Good for you to respond and try to change the conversation!!
I am not wired to deal with that kind of nonsense. It is just unacceptable
behavior.
Oh, so your ‘that guy’…………:). Asshole……………
Classic -Â I like to get the last word in and I hate apologizing. Sometimes I fall short, but I am usually aware of it. At least you are aware, right?
This was so dead-on; you had me laughing from the beginning. I can only imagine the encounter.
This was good Jack; loved it.
@a76049f6a32a1e633a732b81bafb98c9:disqus Yep, I am the “asshole.” I try hard to pick my battles because life is too short to argue over nonsense every day.
But these women have rarely heard someone say “no” or been questioned about their actions. I got tired of listening to all of th complaints from parents outside of the clique.
I teach my kids to stand up for themselves so how could I do any less.
Oh, so your ‘that guy’…………:). Asshole……………
Classic -Â I like to get the last word in and I hate apologizing. Sometimes I fall short, but I am usually aware of it. At least you are aware, right?
This was so dead-on; you had me laughing from the beginning. I can only imagine the encounter.
This was good Jack; loved it.
@a76049f6a32a1e633a732b81bafb98c9:disqus Yep, I am the “asshole.” I try hard to pick my battles because life is too short to argue over nonsense every day.
But these women have rarely heard someone say “no” or been questioned about their actions. I got tired of listening to all of th complaints from parents outside of the clique.
I teach my kids to stand up for themselves so how could I do any less.
At our school, the mean girls had been running the PTO. It was awful. At Back-to-School night, the grown up mean girls only applauded for certain teachers, etc. They made their likes/dislikes known. They are setting quite the examples for their mean girls-in-training.
@3c4dd2217681aac6f372f2bcc1ea5c94:disqus I recommend sending them Ex Lax brownies with a note thanking them for their hard work.
At our school, the mean girls had been running the PTO. It was awful. At Back-to-School night, the grown up mean girls only applauded for certain teachers, etc. They made their likes/dislikes known. They are setting quite the examples for their mean girls-in-training.
@3c4dd2217681aac6f372f2bcc1ea5c94:disqus I recommend sending them Ex Lax brownies with a note thanking them for their hard work.
G’Day Jack,Â
Wife,same one for 45 years, three daughters, four granddaughters, one sister, five sisters-in-law, lots of cousins and nieces and grandnieces too numerous to mention have taught me one thing.
I am totally unqualified to comment on the behaviour of women of any age. It truly is the embodiment of “the more you know, the more you realize you don’t know.” When I add the women that I”ve worked with and for plus women friends……..!
But I must confess that the idea of “blaming the mother” has a certain appeal.Â
And when people ask me the secret to a successful marriage, I point out that it’s contained in just two words: “Yes Dear.”
Take care Jack. That 5 year old horror will grow up to be somebody’s teenage daughter.
As an elderly nun once told me. ” Don’t worry. One day, God will give you the grace.”
I dunno what she meant. But I wanted to end my comment on a profound note.
Regards
LeonÂ
@3884c43f625610ab1bb99b677867ea2a:disqus That five year old will terrorize her parents and her mother will be one of those women who grows old with all the grace that Botox, implants and tanning can buy.
G’Day Jack,Â
Wife,same one for 45 years, three daughters, four granddaughters, one sister, five sisters-in-law, lots of cousins and nieces and grandnieces too numerous to mention have taught me one thing.
I am totally unqualified to comment on the behaviour of women of any age. It truly is the embodiment of “the more you know, the more you realize you don’t know.” When I add the women that I”ve worked with and for plus women friends……..!
But I must confess that the idea of “blaming the mother” has a certain appeal.Â
And when people ask me the secret to a successful marriage, I point out that it’s contained in just two words: “Yes Dear.”
Take care Jack. That 5 year old horror will grow up to be somebody’s teenage daughter.
As an elderly nun once told me. ” Don’t worry. One day, God will give you the grace.”
I dunno what she meant. But I wanted to end my comment on a profound note.
Regards
LeonÂ
@3884c43f625610ab1bb99b677867ea2a:disqus That five year old will terrorize her parents and her mother will be one of those women who grows old with all the grace that Botox, implants and tanning can buy.
I can’t believe they were mad you responded. Good for you for being so involved in the school, with the kids, etc! Forget ’em!
@twitter-111710312:disqus They complained more than once. It is kind of funny to me. Not smart to let me know that I got you because I am just juvenile enough to do it again for no other reason than because I can.
I can’t believe they were mad you responded. Good for you for being so involved in the school, with the kids, etc! Forget ’em!
@twitter-111710312:disqus They complained more than once. It is kind of funny to me. Not smart to let me know that I got you because I am just juvenile enough to do it again for no other reason than because I can.
I like to call them the Mommy Mafia and they are alive and quite well here in my neck of the woods. Â They encourage bad behavior in their boys as well. Â My son is 8 (rising 3rd grader) and it was this year that he experienced the product of a Mean Mom. Â His supposed best friend suddenly made him feel stupid, picking on him about his dislike of scary movies (while at the lunch table full of kids). Â My son waited patiently and then went after him on the playground later. Of course my son got in major trouble, but my husband and I were both tickled that he made sure his so-called friend knew when he said to stop, he meant Stop!
My almost 3 y.o. hasn’t hit it yet, but her friends’ older siblings are in my son’s ‘group’ and their Moms are part of the Mafia. Â I’m on high alert.
Good luck in your endeavors to teach your kids how to handle this, Jack. Â To try to put them in a bubble or completely out of harms way only sets them up for a huge surprise when they are adults. Â Sounds like you’re teaching them exactly what to do now.
@EricaAllison:disqus The Mommy Mafia is a good description. I am glad to hear that your son stood up for himself. It is important.
As you said there is nothing to be gained by trying to put the kids in a bubble because  sooner or later it pops. Can’t always be there so we have to teach them how to deal with adversity. If we don’t help them develop coping skills we do nothing but cripple them.
I like to call them the Mommy Mafia and they are alive and quite well here in my neck of the woods. Â They encourage bad behavior in their boys as well. Â My son is 8 (rising 3rd grader) and it was this year that he experienced the product of a Mean Mom. Â His supposed best friend suddenly made him feel stupid, picking on him about his dislike of scary movies (while at the lunch table full of kids). Â My son waited patiently and then went after him on the playground later. Of course my son got in major trouble, but my husband and I were both tickled that he made sure his so-called friend knew when he said to stop, he meant Stop!
My almost 3 y.o. hasn’t hit it yet, but her friends’ older siblings are in my son’s ‘group’ and their Moms are part of the Mafia. Â I’m on high alert.
Good luck in your endeavors to teach your kids how to handle this, Jack. Â To try to put them in a bubble or completely out of harms way only sets them up for a huge surprise when they are adults. Â Sounds like you’re teaching them exactly what to do now.
@EricaAllison:disqus The Mommy Mafia is a good description. I am glad to hear that your son stood up for himself. It is important.
As you said there is nothing to be gained by trying to put the kids in a bubble because  sooner or later it pops. Can’t always be there so we have to teach them how to deal with adversity. If we don’t help them develop coping skills we do nothing but cripple them.
The mean boys exist. They’re maybe a little more violent. Mean girls say mean things — probably because they’re smarter. Mean boys seem to hit. That preference seems to track up into adulthood.
@d867f5b7346d6b0778f5db620991ecd5:disqus I don’t know that I would say that they are smarter- just different in how they handle things.
The mean boys exist. They’re maybe a little more violent. Mean girls say mean things — probably because they’re smarter. Mean boys seem to hit. That preference seems to track up into adulthood.
@d867f5b7346d6b0778f5db620991ecd5:disqus I don’t know that I would say that they are smarter- just different in how they handle things.
And this is why my husband prays we will only have sons, but should we end up with daughters, I hope nice moms make nice girls :)Â
@3d68a363668b116bc5cc26e938c3a21c:disqus Good parents who practice good parenting make good kids.
And this is why my husband prays we will only have sons, but should we end up with daughters, I hope nice moms make nice girls :)Â
@3d68a363668b116bc5cc26e938c3a21c:disqus Good parents who practice good parenting make good kids.
Mean moms. Um. Okay. (And what else might be going on in their lives – the moms and the girls? And our mean media? And our entitlement-happiness-obsessed society?)
Damned if you do and damned if you don’t.
I rest my case. (The one I made today, I mean… on my site – the rant that all but says “Motherhood means ALWAYS saying I’m sorry.”)
Â
@biglittlewolf:disqus I don’t provide a break to people who judge others with such a shallow yardstick- especially when they are educated.
I don’t give the fathers a break either. It just so happens that I haven’t had as much interaction with them- but I know they are there too.
@biglittlewolf:disqus To be clear, I am not suggesting that you support being selfish or taking any sort of swipe at you.
Mean moms. Um. Okay. (And what else might be going on in their lives – the moms and the girls? And our mean media? And our entitlement-happiness-obsessed society?)
Damned if you do and damned if you don’t.
I rest my case. (The one I made today, I mean… on my site – the rant that all but says “Motherhood means ALWAYS saying I’m sorry.”)
Â
@biglittlewolf:disqus I don’t provide a break to people who judge others with such a shallow yardstick- especially when they are educated.
I don’t give the fathers a break either. It just so happens that I haven’t had as much interaction with them- but I know they are there too.
@biglittlewolf:disqus To be clear, I am not suggesting that you support being selfish or taking any sort of swipe at you.
Mean Girls…. I don’t have words to describe them…. they really are just so stuck up and full of it and it is sad that society today allows it. Somewhere down the line very far far down the line…. someone allowed a bratty little girl to be sour and mean and now, here we are today with an army of mean little clones. It’s quite sad really.
The best thing you can do is give your daughter the confidence to stand up to these immature girls. Sadly, it is the sad part about high school….that’s unavoidable I guess. 🙁
Gabi
@863630922e2c6c2f295446427276fadb:disqus That is what we are doing. Working hard to make sure that she understands that we don’t measure value/worth of people by material goods.
Mean Girls…. I don’t have words to describe them…. they really are just so stuck up and full of it and it is sad that society today allows it. Somewhere down the line very far far down the line…. someone allowed a bratty little girl to be sour and mean and now, here we are today with an army of mean little clones. It’s quite sad really.
The best thing you can do is give your daughter the confidence to stand up to these immature girls. Sadly, it is the sad part about high school….that’s unavoidable I guess. 🙁
Gabi
@863630922e2c6c2f295446427276fadb:disqus That is what we are doing. Working hard to make sure that she understands that we don’t measure value/worth of people by material goods.
I am a woman/mom and I don’t understand the mean girls line of thinking either. In Chinese history there were a lot of horrific instances of women committing atrocity against women inside the royal houses. Perhaps it was due to the fact that you really needed to be the emperor’s favorite to ensure your survival and your children’s safety? But why still now?
As much as I feigned lament, I am convinced I would not have know how to raise a girl if I had one.
@c6aa4dbae7c2de4ecbbbe2f55e49af89:disqus The examples you cite make more sense to me. If you need to curry favor for survival than that I get.
But this other stuff, it is just wrong and unnecessary.
I am a woman/mom and I don’t understand the mean girls line of thinking either. In Chinese history there were a lot of horrific instances of women committing atrocity against women inside the royal houses. Perhaps it was due to the fact that you really needed to be the emperor’s favorite to ensure your survival and your children’s safety? But why still now?
As much as I feigned lament, I am convinced I would not have know how to raise a girl if I had one.
@c6aa4dbae7c2de4ecbbbe2f55e49af89:disqus The examples you cite make more sense to me. If you need to curry favor for survival than that I get.
But this other stuff, it is just wrong and unnecessary.
I always have to ask where dad is. Does he even see this or is he preoccupied with other things. These mom’s misery is so obvious in the way they act. They truly do try to bring everyone down to their level of unhappiness and insecurity. Then they wake up one day and wonder why they are alone and their children hate them.
@ChopperPapa:disqus In regards to the people I am thinking of the husbands are just as bad if not worse. Not very impressive at all.
I always have to ask where dad is. Does he even see this or is he preoccupied with other things. These mom’s misery is so obvious in the way they act. They truly do try to bring everyone down to their level of unhappiness and insecurity. Then they wake up one day and wonder why they are alone and their children hate them.
@ChopperPapa:disqus In regards to the people I am thinking of the husbands are just as bad if not worse. Not very impressive at all.
Mean girls suck. They are the reason I hated high school…all three of them. They are the reason we all get a bad rap for being conniving and manipulative. Your daughter is going to have a hard time all the way through high school. The best thing you can do for her is give her the confidence to stand up to them.
@ginidietrich:disqus That is the goal- teach her to be confident and self assured in her abilities. If all goes as planned the mean girls will have a much harder time making her unhappy.
Or alternatively I photoshop them into pictures that are highly unflattering. Ooops, did I say that out loud. 😉 Can’t mess with my kids- dad is around.
Mean girls suck. They are the reason I hated high school…all three of them. They are the reason we all get a bad rap for being conniving and manipulative. Your daughter is going to have a hard time all the way through high school. The best thing you can do for her is give her the confidence to stand up to them.
@ginidietrich:disqus That is the goal- teach her to be confident and self assured in her abilities. If all goes as planned the mean girls will have a much harder time making her unhappy.
Or alternatively I photoshop them into pictures that are highly unflattering. Ooops, did I say that out loud. 😉 Can’t mess with my kids- dad is around.
Alas, the mean girls, I knew them Jack. In elementary school, I wore homemade clothes. The mean girls wanted to know where my logos were: first it was Garanimals, then Dittoes, then Jordache and beyond. I always had the most diverse group of friends in school. The mean girls would ask, “Why are you friends with THEM?” The same thing continued in junior high and then in high school. When I finally had my own Guess jeans too, I realized that the mean girls had even higher standards. You had to have a Gucci watch and drive a Rabbit. I drove a 1977 Chevy Caprice Classic. Today, I drive a Prius and I can’t help but laugh at the mean women with their giant SUVs and $100 tanks of gas. They can’t “win” if you don’t let them.
@marianneworley:disqus Yep, I know them. Seen them as a boy, man and dad. But you’re right- they only win if you let them. The kids and I talk about not giving power to people who don’t deserve it.
Alas, the mean girls, I knew them Jack. In elementary school, I wore homemade clothes. The mean girls wanted to know where my logos were: first it was Garanimals, then Dittoes, then Jordache and beyond. I always had the most diverse group of friends in school. The mean girls would ask, “Why are you friends with THEM?” The same thing continued in junior high and then in high school. When I finally had my own Guess jeans too, I realized that the mean girls had even higher standards. You had to have a Gucci watch and drive a Rabbit. I drove a 1977 Chevy Caprice Classic. Today, I drive a Prius and I can’t help but laugh at the mean women with their giant SUVs and $100 tanks of gas. They can’t “win” if you don’t let them.
@marianneworley:disqus Yep, I know them. Seen them as a boy, man and dad. But you’re right- they only win if you let them. The kids and I talk about not giving power to people who don’t deserve it.
I have two sons so I don’t see much of the mean girl stuff but I will tell you that there is a special brand of mean boy that could join that club without any problem. I agree that most boys can be mean, call each other names or fight, but they quick to get over it and move on. There are others out there and I was pretty surprised at the cattiness. If boys can be called catty that’s what I would label these kids and you are right, it comes from their parents and not just the moms. I have it so drilled into my boys heads that there is no room for looking down on people just because they are fat, skinny, poor, unattractive etc. that they are beginning to notice the catty boys for what they are.Â
This was a good post and I wish you luck next year. Unfortunately, the catty moms club is a force to be reckoned with.
@Jottergirl:disqus I have seen some of the mean boys- but being male I just find it easier to deal with them. I have a few tricks of the trade that have proven to be useful.
Most of the time I have found that with a little effort we can marginalize their influence. It is not perfect, but it does go a long way to making school more pleasant.
I have two sons so I don’t see much of the mean girl stuff but I will tell you that there is a special brand of mean boy that could join that club without any problem. I agree that most boys can be mean, call each other names or fight, but they quick to get over it and move on. There are others out there and I was pretty surprised at the cattiness. If boys can be called catty that’s what I would label these kids and you are right, it comes from their parents and not just the moms. I have it so drilled into my boys heads that there is no room for looking down on people just because they are fat, skinny, poor, unattractive etc. that they are beginning to notice the catty boys for what they are.Â
This was a good post and I wish you luck next year. Unfortunately, the catty moms club is a force to be reckoned with.
@Jottergirl:disqus I have seen some of the mean boys- but being male I just find it easier to deal with them. I have a few tricks of the trade that have proven to be useful.
Most of the time I have found that with a little effort we can marginalize their influence. It is not perfect, but it does go a long way to making school more pleasant.